INTERVIEW WITH ASHWIN KARKI - FROM “NEPALI PAD MAN” TO A “MENSTRUATION ACTIVIST”
By Sriya Chadalavada and LJ Dusthimer
WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO WORK IN THIS FIELD PROMOTING WOMEN’S HEALTH AND RIGHTS?
My mother and my sister. They both have a hard time with menstruation. My mother has high bleeding and little energy during her periods. My older sister has a learning disability and she had a hard time understanding periods when people wouldn’t speak openly to her. In addition, she spent time in a dark room when she bled, and it hurt me that someone I used to play with everyday was now partially inaccessible and distant from me.
I realized over time that it is not necessary for these things to happen. Women can visit the doctor, eat foods rich with iron, use heat pads, do less work, and find other sources of comfort. Nothing is dirty about period blood that my sister had to be in a separate room. I realized that my society needed to eliminate taboos and normalize menstruation to support women’s health and rights.
WHEN DID YOU FIRST LEARN WHAT PERIODS WERE?
I used to notice my mother. In our society mother is everything for us. When we need something, food, anything, we go to our mother first. A few days every month, my mother used to sleep day and night and had so little energy. It made me feel so bad to see my mother like that and I was really low. I didn’t even want to go home. I didn’t know how to help her. In those days I didn’t know it was because of high bleeding during her periods.
Sanitary pads were not as absorbent as cotton so she used cotton pads. One day I saw a discarded cotton pad but I wasn’t curious enough and didn’t connect it to periods. In school, our syllabus included periods in grade 8, 9, but it wasn’t open talked about. I was eventually able to make the connection to my own mother. Talks at school are mostly something teachers skipped through. There is a problem in many schools of brushing over these topics. Many students laugh when you show them reproductive organs so teachers avoid it.
COULD YOU DESCRIBE HOW YOU SEE MENSTRUATION IN NEPAL TODAY?
The conditions are improving day by day. When I began my work 2 years ago, there were not many campaigns and projects. Today however, there are many more. Previously smaller initiations have also really grown.
We are driven by westernization and modernization and people are willing to accept being open to normalizing periods. Our government is also supporting such efforts in recent policy and in our sanitation and health sectors. In urban areas too many schools have been adding sanitary pad machines, and dust bins have been added in women’s restrooms, but many rural area don’t have them. Many people don’t know how to dispose of pads properly.
The primary remaining issue is that many people publicly will support menstrual rights, but some people don’t follow them in their own family or for themselves. Women will still be sleeping on the floor, not entering kitchens or temples, or will eat separately. Communities still practice chaaupadi but do not acknowledge that they do. People need to actively encourage their own family members to see periods differently.
WHAT IS YOUR LONG TERM VISION FOR THE WORK YOU DO WITH FIGHTING TABOOS SURROUNDING MENSTRUATION?
In 5-10 years, I want to make my nation, Nepal, a period friendly environment. I want people to speak openly that “Oh yes, I’ve been menstruating for two days.” That is how I end every session with school girls, have them repeatedly say, “I have been menstruating for two days.” Eventually they lose their inhibitions and being to yell it.
I want women on their periods to live comfortably and choose whether they want to cook or go to the temple if they feel energetic enough. In Nepal, women are mostly responsible for household tasks and men are responsible for financially supporting the family. I want women to be financially independent. That is also why I focus on social entrepreneurship. Through this pad project, I want to decrease period taboos but I also want to reduce poverty, and increase financial and social equality.
DO YOU THINK THIS CHANGE IS POSSIBLE IN JUST 5-10 YEARS?
There are 7 provinces in Nepal. If I can go through approximately a province in a year and visit as many villages as possible, then absolutely! There are also others like me working for this cause. There will be a significant change.
Nepal has made a lot of progress over the last twenty years, and many villages have been trying to eradicate the practice of chhaupudi. But I think an important part of the revolution moving forward is regional activism. Nepal is a very diverse country and, in many regions, we are not even unified by the common language of Nepali. I want to help promote creating a pad man and pad women for every village across Nepal. I want to motivate people to teach each other
WHAT ARE SOME DIFFICULTIES YOU’VE FACED?
While working on such projects, people are not always supportive. Sometimes people see collaboration as competition. This can be frustrating and has made me want to quit at times. The pad project, for example, is not unique. Other groups across Nepal are working on similar issues. I once tried to reach out to a man to learn more about his pad design. But he turned me away, afraid that I’d cut into his profit. I wanted to tell him that profit is not the point of the work we do! I want so badly to make others feel as invested in this cause—but I don’t want to stir competition and incite animosity among those working on similar projects.
Because I am a man, I don’t know as much about periods and had to spend time learning. Even today there are many things that I do not know. Sometimes I wish I studied science in college! I am always updating my knowledge and trying my best to understand menstruation so that I pass along accurate knowledge.
Another difficulty is balancing my work with being a student. To work on this project, I took a month off school. I manage my assignments and will work even harder when I get back to university. I don’t get discouraged by such obstacles because I truly love my work. I thrive when meeting new people and it’s impossible not to give 100% when I see people smiling and living better lives because of my work.
TELL US A STORY OF YOUR EXPERIENCES THAT STANDS OUT TO YOU.
After my final exams in 10th grade, I had 3 months off. I gathered 25 of my classmates to involve them in my project, Heritage Cleaning. It was to clean heritage sites across Pokhara for a week. In that time, when I was leading that project, one day, one of my female friends didn’t come. Some people complained that she was slacking off. I told her to come to work, and that she couldn’t just slack off because she’s my close friend. She agreed and came to help, but still didn’t do much work. Many people were disappointed with her.
Later I learned she was on her period and had cramps. I couldn’t be accommodating or understand because she never told me and I didn’t know. She was a close friend but still this happened. I needed to be conscious that women might have hard time bringing up the topic. She could have mentioned it to me, her close friend but felt hesitant to. This story shows how its important to speak up and how everyone has to be more proactive.
AS A MAN, DO YOU FIND IT DIFFICULT TO CONNECT WITH GIRLS AND GET THEM TO OPEN UP TO YOU WITH QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS?
Yes. When the project was in the beginning phase, it was difficult to get girls and women to open up and speak.
Early on, I overheard female classmates speaking by a bathroom, “look at Ashwin posting about pads and periods on his facebook.” Although they were making fun of me, it actually kind of made me happy that they noticed my posts and I became determined to make them involved. Including and involving people that don’t understand is important to me. Eventually they will not see it as weird and they will see it as more of a positive thing. Even just through facebook, I’ve involved thousands of people. I try to live as an activist and even talk with random people I meet.
Even today it is not always easy. Whenever I show a panties or pad to a group of school girls, they often laugh. I try to laugh with them to make it more normal. I tell them I also wear underwear and that half the human population menstruates. I do ban laughing because that would only make them laugh more. Creating a fun and open atmosphere leads them to be more interactive and honest. Also because I am a man, I hope that they see men care and its okay to talk about these things with men too.
WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT PERIODS?
During menstruation, people think blood is dirty. This is the biggest issue. People think, if we visit temples on our periods, god will curse us. People believe such things.
I tell girls and women that is not true and try to convince them by talking about ancient times. When there were no roads, or extra materials to use to manage bleeding, bleeding would spread everywhere. Women used to use mud and a little bit of cloth to stop blood from flowing. If women had to go somewhere, even a temple, they had to walk a great distance. As they were responsible for cooking for the whole family and even working in fields, they could not do much hard work. Thus, women would rest and be separate from others during those days.
While roads came, and things changed, people’s mindsets or thinking did not evolve. If there is a cut on my arm, there is not a difference in how dirty it is from menstrual blood. If I can go to a temple with a cut on my arm, women can go to the temple while on their periods.
Women should feel comfortable raising their voice because it is often themselves holding themselves back. If you don’t open up if you have a hard time, it is hard for others to support you. Women are pressured to uphold tradition and it is not always easy to speak up without fear of consequences. It is hard to fight ingrained culture but today, most of society and the law are with you—I wish all women would know that for every person who is against you, there are 100 people that would support you.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST THING THAT PEOPLE FROM URBAN AREAS OR ABROAD CAN DO TO HELP THIS CAUSE?
To get involved. Involvement makes people responsible. Menstrual taboos are everywhere. People should learn facts about periods and try to influence the people around them. Using a platform such as social media can also help. People in urban areas don’t always talk about health (what foods to eat during periods, many women are iron deficient) or waste management (bio-waste should be disposed of differently but rarely is). Talking about these topics can help them make changes in their own communities.
YOU’VE SAID THAT YOU DIDN’T LIKE THE NAME “PAD MAN”, AND YOU WERE THINKING OF AN ALTERNATE NAME. WHY IS THAT?
Periods are a women thing! Advocating for a women’s thing is a good thing and men should advocate for women’s rights. But we talk about equality and feminism, and if I act like I am the boss of a women’s thing, I’m also a part of the problem. I want to support women being in charge of their menstruation and daily lives. I felt passionate about the cause so I am working for it, but so are many women. I don’t think a pad man getting more attention than them is fair. I would rather Nepal be filled with Pad women. Let me know if you think of a good name for me! I’m considering “menstruation activist” at the moment.